From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id qL13Nu7Qt2CqcQAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 02 Jun 2021 20:41:50 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id gNjeMe7Qt2BpHwAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 02 Jun 2021 18:41:50 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D47E7194BF for ; Wed, 2 Jun 2021 20:41:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:42250 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1loVoK-0007c5-L9 for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 02 Jun 2021 14:41:48 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58638) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1loVnO-0007bt-7g for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jun 2021 14:40:50 -0400 Received: from relay-egress-host.us-east-2.a.mail.umich.edu ([18.216.144.57]:46440 helo=fit-afallach.relay-egress.a.mail.umich.edu) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1loVnL-0006tU-7H for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jun 2021 14:40:49 -0400 Received: from weak-tupilaq.authn-relay.a.mail.umich.edu (ip-10-0-73-242.us-east-2.compute.internal [10.0.73.242]) by fit-afallach.relay-egress.a.mail.umich.edu with ESMTPS id 60B7D0AA.A62E8.10ECC3A2.1582047; Wed, 02 Jun 2021 14:40:42 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=umich.edu; s=relay-2018-08-29; t=1622659242; bh=1418ON45HeJzCKztC/LEc6kFhriOaZ9vpU0X/QbqyGY=; h=From:To:cc:Subject:In-reply-to:Date; b=GGFsZKyfEtK9GCAgAzrF/ebsrRqP0z7AlLNDRzC+4B+kbxUebK8WJIDDj99Xzkqz4 GYdeph+rLKU3QmAQh2BQ0cz2ix/zpnZO+f9ioOr2dt2Lxi7QFzPhC0+b39WndjqIMh vxfNjv4gUBNEkUeISLePl1BmBTP178sn+Vy4RSgUtkVt+2+VU3KssYPzajkErw64dL 3bJl1AzcRvPKclrGhOVeeAYr2B5sPM1N6Ze+s5n2YNLvXF1lMTHtq8LMu5cZ4T5jeP ShdnguUwwEbI7TP5DVsZ7YoZYRQ1s51H1KvvsydDU/ifBUtefxyFfvNV9UfMxqsAT7 i/lj/qZQZRqFg== Received: from localhost (Mismatch [88.236.235.126]) by weak-tupilaq.authn-relay.a.mail.umich.edu with ESMTPSA id 60B7D0A8.EA53B.4277B6C1.1159311; Wed, 02 Jun 2021 14:40:41 -0400 From: Greg Minshall To: "Bruce D'Arcus" Subject: Re: suggestion to change default org-latex-pdf-process to latexmk In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Jun 2021 12:47:44 -0400." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7.1; GNU Emacs 27.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <1018709.1622659237.1@apollo2.minshall.org> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2021 21:40:37 +0300 Message-ID: <1018710.1622659237@apollo2.minshall.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=18.216.144.57; envelope-from=minshall@umich.edu; helo=fit-afallach.relay-egress.a.mail.umich.edu X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Colin Baxter , org-mode-email Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1622659310; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=1418ON45HeJzCKztC/LEc6kFhriOaZ9vpU0X/QbqyGY=; b=FELOSOt2ot3Ent6xfnsP21lyQJxS7SlwW5Ir4Zo6GMuv8Djg5d8LX7MWAPmfT5uUr7KUoC HtY1Kxo+tLKMpi5710SO6niUMKnTEHIrVNnS+bCSS0UwN9yYfEWnrz7oSMWJUaxt0IkTxi D6D4Fl0fpGJkN7do4knmJnTkzKSwqF9LmuXDB7HuACTx/5Rq3GeoBIVxoV3OJ7+QBvhygZ vVwp5JI91a4uj+qbjxu57Qs7QL8cdNBoFCNpVVkpWMozICZOBiOdCXpAgaGvR3xaLXyilx 7w0UgjjnaG90Q0hu1BmNkeafqmnz7pyZLDXTWWXPJn0m1wxXqvCHgnFyXxEQYg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1622659310; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=a81s/CX2761lKWyf4MKTreqUjrxEXEgl/ZzLaMqzwFsam6tEA28+4FNspzSK5iyZQvkpbO bAfL3m5x4fUye3mdIZYXMSGuXioaHQLLuFacIDgaookqI0kikURWlc5fM8B6ESuSAvqmnK QiLfdmRUw+zbuiEDO5hAE1gMoferu5Abg1R8NvaFbAbCP3crmWKTMaeZuXwlL7zjKpvOWB 6sd4X5BFoXiHdu7qtclhxQ56SJKFnk/q6kOS86C0N9ZPU/cXoQfcJwr6Are3m2ijItGsQd 8+OSD88nRlYZm/whTGQFsllGAKOpAdkLUpV/tbr8ofGTd/+2TF/YQEIPLquZVA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=umich.edu header.s=relay-2018-08-29 header.b=GGFsZKyf; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.13 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=umich.edu header.s=relay-2018-08-29 header.b=GGFsZKyf; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=umich.edu; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: D47E7194BF X-Spam-Score: -3.13 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: AVBxvYGLrAx2 Bruce, > > I really don't understand why the changed is needed. > > I've stated it twice, I believe, but it's now a longer thread, so: > > Org is set to get native citation support. > > Once that's merged, people who use this feature will be disappointed > to know that when using the natbib or biblatex export processors, > their citations and bibliographies will not render. > > As in, from their perspective, it will be broken upfront. thanks. one important thing will be the manual section describing the new capability -- it should highlight the desirability of using latexmk ("or some process with similar behavior"), and describe the results one will get without it. presumably, people will initially need to read this section to figure out the syntax, etc.? i worry about breaking people's currently working setups. it seems there are N classes of users: 1. not using citation engine. 2. using citation engine 2a. ... and using default latex-to-pdf processing 2b. ... having customized that processing 2bi. ... in a way that works with new citation engine 2bii. .. in a way that does *not* work with new citation engine class 1 could likely benefit from latexmk, but it's optional. class 2a is probably the main class that would find it really helpful to have an automated latexmk. from *our* (the org-mode provider) point of view, i guess the 2b subclasses are indistinguishable. so, if the user finds herself in 2bii, she will have to grep the manual or the web. again, it would be good if information in the manual stuck out. maybe a "TROUBLESHOOTING" sub-section for the new feature? i wonder if we could detect 2a, and offer them the customization dialog? (one would want the user to be able to click the "do not show me this again" button, or equivalent.) packaging. :) cheers, Greg