From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Subject: Variable 'org-ctrl-k-protect-subtree' defaults to nil Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 15:14:27 +0000 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1984364855==" Return-path: Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=49749 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PDIZc-0007LL-Al for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 11:14:59 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PDIZA-0001JK-Ro for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 11:14:29 -0400 Received: from snt0-omc1-s22.snt0.hotmail.com ([65.55.90.33]:26884) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PDIZA-0001J2-Od for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 11:14:28 -0400 List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org --===============1984364855== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_e3ef4be6-0c35-4b0c-a917-aef938d5f1a6_" --_e3ef4be6-0c35-4b0c-a917-aef938d5f1a6_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi everyone=2C It's the first time I'm giving any feedback on org-mode=2C so first of all = I would like to congratulate the original creator and all contributors on a= very interesting and useful work. I've discovered org-mode only a couple of weeks ago and was intrigued enoug= h to restart using emacs=2C after several years away from it! I've been stu= dying Org's documentation and tutorials=2C and started using it to help me = manage my relocation from Brazil to Italy. What I am reporting=2C technically=2C is a feature: the fact that variable = 'org-ctrl-k-protect-subtree' defaults to nil. But considering how easy this= makes to lose a whole subtree of data=2C especially for a newcomer to org-= mode=2C I think it should be considered a serious bug. As a matter of fact= =2C I am very surprised that C-k would be considered an admissible alternat= ive to C-c C-x C-w/M-w=2C as a way to kill a subtree! I propose that 'org-ctr-k-protect-subtree' is made to default to 't' ASAP (= already costumized it in that way on my setup)=2C and that the behavior of = C-k on headings is made consistent: kill to the end of line=2C regardless o= f the visibility of the subtree. Best regards=2C Paulo Tavares. = --_e3ef4be6-0c35-4b0c-a917-aef938d5f1a6_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi everyone=2C

It's the first time I'm giving any feedback on org-mo= de=2C so first of all I would like to congratulate the original creator and= all contributors on a very interesting and useful work.

I've discov= ered org-mode only a couple of weeks ago and was intrigued enough to restar= t using emacs=2C after several years away from it! I've been studying Org's= documentation and tutorials=2C and started using it to help me manage my r= elocation from Brazil to Italy.

What I am reporting=2C technically= =2C is a feature: the fact that variable 'org-ctrl-k-protect-subtree' defau= lts to nil. But considering how easy this makes to lose a whole subtree of = data=2C especially for a newcomer to org-mode=2C I think it should be consi= dered a serious bug. As a matter of fact=2C I am very surprised that C-k wo= uld be considered an admissible alternative to C-c C-x C-w/M-w=2C as a way = to kill a subtree!

I propose that 'org-ctr-k-protect-subtree' is mad= e to default to 't' ASAP (already costumized it in that way on my setup)=2C= and that the behavior of C-k on headings is made consistent: kill to the e= nd of line=2C regardless of the visibility of the subtree.

= =3B =3B Best regards=2C

=3B =3B =3B =3B =3B= Paulo Tavares.
= --_e3ef4be6-0c35-4b0c-a917-aef938d5f1a6_-- --===============1984364855== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode --===============1984364855==-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Noorul Islam K M Subject: Re: Variable 'org-ctrl-k-protect-subtree' defaults to nil Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 11:57:15 +0530 Message-ID: <87y69audks.fsf@noorul.maa.corp.collab.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Return-path: Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=60066 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PDWqS-0008G9-AI for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Nov 2010 02:29:17 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PDWqR-0002Do-2w for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Nov 2010 02:29:16 -0400 Received: from mail-gw0-f41.google.com ([74.125.83.41]:41026) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PDWqQ-0002Dh-VF for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Nov 2010 02:29:15 -0400 Received: by gwb11 with SMTP id 11so264300gwb.0 for ; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 23:29:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (pjmtavares@hotmail.com's message of "Tue, 2 Nov 2010 15:14:27 +0000") List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: pjmtavares@hotmail.com Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org writes: > Hi everyone, > > It's the first time I'm giving any feedback on org-mode, so first of all I would like to congratulate the original creator and all contributors on a very interesting and useful work. > > I've discovered org-mode only a couple of weeks ago and was intrigued enough to restart using emacs, after several years away from it! I've been studying Org's documentation and tutorials, and started using it to help me manage my relocation from Brazil to Italy. > > What I am reporting, technically, is a feature: the fact that variable 'org-ctrl-k-protect-subtree' defaults to nil. But considering how easy this makes to lose a whole subtree of data, especially for a newcomer to org-mode, I think it should be considered a serious bug. As a matter of fact, I am very surprised that C-k would be considered an admissible alternative to C-c C-x C-w/M-w, as a way to kill a subtree! > > I propose that 'org-ctr-k-protect-subtree' is made to default to 't' ASAP (already costumized it in that way on my setup), and that the behavior of C-k on headings is made consistent: kill to the end of line, regardless of the visibility of the subtree. > I slightly disagree here. Most of the time I definitely want the entire subtree to go away. I think this is the beauty of outline mode. Thanks and Regards Noorul From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Alan L Tyree Subject: Re: Re: Variable 'org-ctrl-k-protect-subtree' defaults to nil Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 20:22:08 +1100 Message-ID: <20101103202208.74977a80.alantyree@gmail.com> References: <87y69audks.fsf@noorul.maa.corp.collab.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=44910 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PDZXs-0002TN-Oh for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Nov 2010 05:22:17 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PDZXr-0001fN-3P for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Nov 2010 05:22:16 -0400 Received: from mail-iw0-f169.google.com ([209.85.214.169]:36075) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PDZXq-0001fI-Ve for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Nov 2010 05:22:15 -0400 Received: by iwn9 with SMTP id 9so390214iwn.0 for ; Wed, 03 Nov 2010 02:22:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87y69audks.fsf@noorul.maa.corp.collab.net> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 11:57:15 +0530 Noorul Islam K M wrote: > writes: > > > Hi everyone, > > > > It's the first time I'm giving any feedback on org-mode, so first > > of all I would like to congratulate the original creator and all > > contributors on a very interesting and useful work. > > > > I've discovered org-mode only a couple of weeks ago and was > > intrigued enough to restart using emacs, after several years away > > from it! I've been studying Org's documentation and tutorials, and > > started using it to help me manage my relocation from Brazil to > > Italy. > > > > What I am reporting, technically, is a feature: the fact that > > variable 'org-ctrl-k-protect-subtree' defaults to nil. But > > considering how easy this makes to lose a whole subtree of data, > > especially for a newcomer to org-mode, I think it should be > > considered a serious bug. As a matter of fact, I am very surprised > > that C-k would be considered an admissible alternative to C-c C-x > > C-w/M-w, as a way to kill a subtree! > > > > I propose that 'org-ctr-k-protect-subtree' is made to default to > > 't' ASAP (already costumized it in that way on my setup), and that > > the behavior of C-k on headings is made consistent: kill to the end > > of line, regardless of the visibility of the subtree. > > > > I slightly disagree here. Most of the time I definitely want the > entire subtree to go away. I think this is the beauty of outline > mode. > > Thanks and Regards > Noorul I agree with the original poster. It's true that experienced users "want the entire subtree to go away", but it is going to be one hell of a bit surprise for novices. Gurus can set this variable (and any other) to suit their needs, but org-mode ought to work out-of-the-box in a way that protects us kids. Thanks for a terrific product! Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > -- Alan L Tyree http://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan Tel: 04 2748 6206 From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Carsten Dominik Subject: Re: Re: Variable 'org-ctrl-k-protect-subtree' defaults to nil Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 23:30:20 +0100 Message-ID: <3A548F03-656C-4DC9-AF0A-01569627F98E@gmail.com> References: <87y69audks.fsf@noorul.maa.corp.collab.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=53231 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PDopC-0002EQ-Js for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Nov 2010 21:41:16 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PDlqa-00032c-1Q for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Nov 2010 18:30:25 -0400 Received: from mail-ey0-f169.google.com ([209.85.215.169]:49390) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PDlqZ-00032Y-R7 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Nov 2010 18:30:23 -0400 Received: by eydd26 with SMTP id d26so691367eyd.0 for ; Wed, 03 Nov 2010 15:30:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87y69audks.fsf@noorul.maa.corp.collab.net> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Noorul Islam K M Cc: pjmtavares@hotmail.com, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org On Nov 3, 2010, at 7:27 AM, Noorul Islam K M wrote: > writes: > >> Hi everyone, >> >> It's the first time I'm giving any feedback on org-mode, so first >> of all I would like to congratulate the original creator and all >> contributors on a very interesting and useful work. >> >> I've discovered org-mode only a couple of weeks ago and was >> intrigued enough to restart using emacs, after several years away >> from it! I've been studying Org's documentation and tutorials, and >> started using it to help me manage my relocation from Brazil to >> Italy. >> >> What I am reporting, technically, is a feature: the fact that >> variable 'org-ctrl-k-protect-subtree' defaults to nil. But >> considering how easy this makes to lose a whole subtree of data, >> especially for a newcomer to org-mode, I think it should be >> considered a serious bug. As a matter of fact, I am very surprised >> that C-k would be considered an admissible alternative to C-c C-x C- >> w/M-w, as a way to kill a subtree! >> >> I propose that 'org-ctr-k-protect-subtree' is made to default to >> 't' ASAP (already costumized it in that way on my setup), and that >> the behavior of C-k on headings is made consistent: kill to the end >> of line, regardless of the visibility of the subtree. >> > > I slightly disagree here. Most of the time I definitely want the > entire > subtree to go away. I think this is the beauty of outline mode. I agree with Norul. C-k kills an entire visible line, and that line has ... ellispes and therefore *contains* the folded text. Just killing the headline would leave ... on a line by its own, a bad state which is not good to have. This change would also make the behavior inconsistent with other Emacs modes and behavior. So we will keep the current default - but feel free to submit a patch to documentation or a tutorial to points out this issue to beginners. Greetings. - Carsten