From: Detlef Steuer <steuer@hsu-hh.de>
To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Changed list indentation behavior: how to revert?
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 12:58:30 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20201115125830.79262e07@linux-h0yu.fritz.box> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87y2j2u9g7.fsf@gmail.com>
Am Sun, 15 Nov 2020 08:48:56 -0300
schrieb Gustavo Barros <gtvbrs@gmail.com>:
> Hi All,
>
> On Sun, 15 Nov 2020 at 13:37, Greg Minshall <minshall@umich.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > hi, all.
> >
> > David Rogers <davidandrewrogers@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Am I crazy to say that your last example of unwanted behavior is
> >> easier for me to read and understand? (and to me the common
> >> indenting is a hopeless mess?)
> >
> > yes, in fact, the "new" way sort of has the buffer indentation match
> > that of the outline structure of the file (specified by asterisks).
> > there's a lot to be said for that. (though, obviously, it's not
> > what everyone would want.)
> >
> > if the new mode stays as the standard, maybe we'd want to capture an
> > asterisk typed immediately after a newline that would (by default),
> > put that line-beginning asterisk back in column one?
> >
> > otherwise, this is what one gets (without remembering to do a C-j
> > instead of <RET>):
> > -----
> > * i wanted a headline<RET>
> > * i wanted a subhead, but it's ignored by org mode
> > -----
> > which is maybe not optimal?
> >
> > in most non-org modes (including in Org Src... buffers, and in org
> > files when writing org-mode lists), i'm a big fan of electric
> > indent mode.
> >
> > maybe an org-specific setting, "org-file-indent-follows-structure"?
> > if true, it means the user wants to have a "raw" org document laid
> > out according to the outline structure of the document. if false,
> > it means one, in general, wants the org file laid out with
> > left-alignment (or, right, in right-to-left) languages (not
> > including embedded lists, and whatever else i might be ignoring).
> >
> > cheers, Greg
>
> I'm quite surprised by the reaction to this issue, because
> `electric-indent-mode' *does not change Org's indentation settings*,
> it just applies them alongside RET. Which makes me think that those
> who've been so bitten by it where actually manually overriding (their
> own) settings in this area by never applying indentation. If that's
> your case, you'd probably be very surprised of running
> `org-indent-region' in your documents (don't do it, I don't want to
> break them).
>
> In particular, one "surprising" result of the "new behavior" is that
> of indentation after a heading. That was already and continues to be
> controlled by the user option `org-adapt-indentation'. If you don't
> want your content to be indented after a heading, set it to nil. And
> `electric-indent-mode' should do what you expect in this regard.
>
> I'm not sure if thus overriding your own (or Org's, if you prefer)
> indentation settings by selectively applying indentation is a sane
> approach, so perhaps `electric-indent-mode' may help you discipline
> your editing to your benefit. And make you more conscious of Org
> indentation. Especially because indentation is not a "free variable"
> in Org, it is a syntactical aspect of an Org document and,
> conspicuously, is critical to the definition of a heading and of
> plain lists.
>
> An example from Greg:
>
> > -----
> > * i wanted a headline<RET>
> > * i wanted a subhead, but it's ignored by org mode
> > -----
>
> That's because the first one is indeed a heading, and the second is
> not, it is a plain list item. By definition a heading must start at
> the left margin.
>
> You (plural) could probably also get some juice from looking into, and
> incorporating to muscle memory, `M-RET', `C-RET' and `C-j'.
>
> Of course, with that said, if you really don't like
> `electric-indent-mode' for Org, you can disable it as described in the
> Org News, previously linked to in this thread. There is ground to
> prefer this, particularly for the list case, mentioned by Karl in the
> original message of this thread. But `electric-indent-mode' does not
> induce a new pattern of indentation for Org, it just applies your
> settings in this area, whose defaults have not changed of recent, as
> far as I recall.
>
> Finally, the "change" was not brought about by Org, but by Emacs. Org
> just (belatedly) tagged along.
>
> Best regards,
> Gustavo.
>
Thank you for clearing that up!
Detlef
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-11-15 11:59 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 76+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-11-13 17:30 Changed list indentation behavior: how to revert? Karl Voit
2020-11-13 21:10 ` Gustavo Barros
2020-11-13 21:38 ` Jean Louis
2020-11-14 3:02 ` Greg Minshall
2020-11-13 21:47 ` Jean Louis
2020-11-13 22:13 ` Gustavo Barros
2020-11-13 22:21 ` Jean Louis
2020-11-14 17:28 ` Diego Zamboni
2020-11-14 19:10 ` Jean Louis
2020-11-15 12:44 ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-11-15 13:26 ` Jean Louis
2020-11-15 21:59 ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-11-15 22:15 ` Jean Louis
2020-11-16 7:15 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-16 6:26 ` Greg Minshall
2020-11-14 10:45 ` Diego Zamboni
2020-11-13 21:31 ` Jean Louis
2020-11-14 22:43 ` David Rogers
2020-11-15 5:38 ` Jean Louis
2020-11-15 7:47 ` David Rogers
2020-11-15 8:54 ` Jean Louis
2020-11-15 10:37 ` Greg Minshall
2020-11-15 11:42 ` Tim Cross
2020-11-15 11:48 ` Gustavo Barros
2020-11-15 11:58 ` Detlef Steuer [this message]
2020-11-15 12:09 ` Jean Louis
2020-11-15 14:50 ` Gustavo Barros
2020-11-15 15:11 ` Jean Louis
2020-11-15 10:44 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-15 11:22 ` Detlef Steuer
2020-11-15 14:03 ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-11-16 5:24 ` Kyle Meyer
2020-11-16 6:41 ` Tim Cross
2020-11-16 7:15 ` Tim Cross
2020-11-16 11:21 ` Gustavo Barros
2020-11-16 23:24 ` T.F. Torrey
2020-11-17 1:21 ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-17 7:01 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-17 7:48 ` Michal Politowski
2020-11-19 4:17 ` Marcel Ventosa
2020-11-16 8:06 ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-11-16 12:10 ` Bill Burdick
2020-11-16 6:54 ` Greg Minshall
2020-11-16 7:12 ` Tim Cross
2020-11-17 4:03 ` Greg Minshall
2020-11-17 5:25 ` Tim Cross
2020-11-17 13:15 ` Greg Minshall
2020-11-16 7:01 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-16 7:22 ` Tim Cross
2020-11-16 16:04 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-16 16:26 ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-16 18:12 ` gyro funch
2020-11-16 18:48 ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-16 19:41 ` Bill Burdick
2020-11-16 19:56 ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-16 21:50 ` Tim Cross
2020-11-16 23:01 ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-16 21:44 ` Tim Cross
2020-11-16 18:20 ` gyro funch
2020-11-16 20:56 ` Tim Cross
2020-11-16 21:35 ` Bill Burdick
2020-11-16 22:44 ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-16 23:55 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-17 9:05 ` Stefan Nobis
2020-11-17 9:15 ` Loris Bennett
2020-11-17 9:32 ` Diego Zamboni
2020-11-17 14:29 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-17 16:25 ` Robert Pluim
2020-11-16 23:39 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-16 21:35 ` Tim Cross
2020-11-17 0:11 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-17 8:45 ` Detlef Steuer
2020-11-17 9:41 ` Jean Louis
2020-11-17 15:33 ` Maxim Nikulin
2020-11-16 13:00 ` Uwe Brauer
2020-11-16 16:10 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
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