From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id QDzZHZlFqV6NNgAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:15:05 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id 6FhGLaFFqV6NRwAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:15:13 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [IPv6:2001:470:142::17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD75A943E46 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:15:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:56822 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTioB-0003AN-Uy for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 05:15:11 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60322) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTinV-0003A3-K9 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 05:14:30 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTinU-0004ZO-K9 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 05:14:29 -0400 Received: from mout-p-201.mailbox.org ([2001:67c:2050::465:201]:45682) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTinT-0004YJ-G8 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 05:14:28 -0400 Received: from smtp2.mailbox.org (smtp2.mailbox.org [80.241.60.241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mout-p-201.mailbox.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49BtB50twPzQlL3 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 11:14:21 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=mailbox.org; h= content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:in-reply-to :mime-version:date:date:message-id:from:from:references:subject :subject:received; s=mail20150812; t=1588151658; bh=xMzxqKbpycaJ 47cDOuD64z7QyrbWwTHgEFqTifYN7Ac=; b=V7R6CZQHTIAJoqvrvwBjBpDD4dR3 Msm5aTQW4I9L/Y8GJdQXcY6H7FqVZfnm/KAwYwkYL5nNuZ4D0UNgb1A11z6vatES mC8lY/2Hi5uFX+m+/i5wcJSCyNIMMrOf5EP4lzzFPS3O/3AQrv4+Mr89ouBmIW3C U64VbAHRETvqVBFio9DnslOsI2bI+0EPidKD6phPLTW82ybb/oXUNLHBRDz0VAy7 tgfaOPL/fTkYdkwx8+n4oXrDWKgoEnAHMNNzFLEsviv3f8wrrafqFn28dCg7jJjs yGhhw8YdgNdl4pxXW9Fj9hxfG+zbiNKtKJgA1lJ/KJWavuXItWG1Qa+ZUw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mailbox.org; s=mail20150812; t=1588151659; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=c1uhA6v1fnaI1knaSec+5BY91ZfKt8BVtILS/bBbHx4=; b=qU23aZuTMg0wZKzi71s0js0obitesrN7LweDghdi73jQLMjTxrRg7rkVArTT3vb2egxBHG b47wSmXMD+vjwbclJ4cCnxkVVaNY3XeFAhORKoY2uOlxORwANaC+I0uxFjCdDdHnsSORAw gU2eHYj6FaGS2hDkX5HDLL6argQ+rbSwbonogIPSsu2C79itOl3zq9pIQmZVQp7x9cYqKk YvAq7zLDDF9+X2oZqUYdLflgKCLRnWwmfHuMJCVOcDVRIObM/O0q9FAdIm/goO1UvHyvgy ZSrMkIFVjpvcADbDV7atLgSJDipv9ruq/rh2AgBoCj/M4v2uyyjBUZaHVS63hw== X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at heinlein-support.de Received: from smtp2.mailbox.org ([80.241.60.241]) by spamfilter02.heinlein-hosting.de (spamfilter02.heinlein-hosting.de [80.241.56.116]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id mXXHQStL6jmF for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 11:14:18 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: wip-cite status question and feedback References: <777184861.71192.1586510991834@office.mailbox.org> <87imi72bn0.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <1016821769.78551.1586641375789@office.mailbox.org> <87h7xp0z1y.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <874kto245n.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87sgh8zpmg.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <1084456979.81820.1586724551265@office.mailbox.org> <877dykz6ri.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87r1wrwvam.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87wo6hfg4k.fsf@aquinas> <87v9lx6ju6.fsf@aquinas> <87r1wj7scc.fsf@aquinas> <87lfmjzgeq.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> From: Denis Maier To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Message-ID: <7706e770-eda6-268f-c1bb-91ee63c209c2@mailbox.org> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 11:14:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87lfmjzgeq.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 233161753 X-Rspamd-Score: -4.41 / 15.00 / 15.00 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2001:67c:2050::465:201; envelope-from=denis.maier.lists@mailbox.org; helo=mout-p-201.mailbox.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: [-] PROGRAM ABORT : Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). Location : parse_addr6(), p0f-client.c:67 X-Received-From: 2001:67c:2050::465:201 X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: scn0 X-Spam-Score: -1.71 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=mailbox.org header.s=mail20150812 header.b=V7R6CZQH; dkim=pass header.d=mailbox.org header.s=mail20150812 header.b=qU23aZuT; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=mailbox.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 2001:470:142::17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Scan-Result: default: False [-1.71 / 13.00]; GENERIC_REPUTATION(0.00)[-0.49319845671892]; DWL_DNSWL_FAIL(0.00)[2001:470:142::17:server fail,mailbox.org:server fail]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2001:470:142::/48:c]; IP_REPUTATION_HAM(0.00)[asn: 22989(0.18), country: US(-0.00), ip: 2001:470:142::17(-0.49)]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.50)[cached: eggs.gnu.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[mailbox.org:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[mailbox.org,none]; MAILLIST(-0.20)[mailman]; FORGED_RECIPIENTS_MAILLIST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:22989, ipnet:2001:470:142::/48, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[larch=yhetil.org]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[denis.maier.lists@mailbox.org,emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[mailbox.org:s=mail20150812]; URIBL_BLOCKED(0.00)[mailbox.org:dkim]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[emacs-orgmode@gnu.org]; HAS_LIST_UNSUB(-0.01)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DNSWL_BLOCKED(0.00)[2001:470:142::17:from]; RCVD_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; FORGED_SENDER_MAILLIST(0.00)[] X-TUID: L/M9w2zgfQAX Hello, Am 25.04.2020 um 18:19 schrieb Nicolas Goaziou: > Hello, > > I cannot answer all open questions as the thread would spread too thin. > So, I'll try to subsume where Org is at the moment, and what need to be > decided. Thanks for the suggestion. Looks like a pretty solid approach. > There is a limitation for prefixes and suffixes: they cannot contain > semicolons or closing square brackets. I'm not sure it is worth > implementing some character escape mechanism, tho. What about using quotes if someone needs this, like so [cite: "common prefix; still common prefix"; pre @key post; pre @key2 post; common suffix] ? > > Now with styles: > > [cite/style: ...] > [cite/style/substyle: ...] > [cite/mycitationprocessor/fullcite: ...] > [cite/foot/text: ...] > [cite/style/substyle/subsubstyle/OMG: ...] > > The forward slash separator gives us local citation style and a name > space. There's no limit on the depth of sub-styles. However style > strings are limited to alphanumeric characters only. Good solution. > I assume [cite:...] is the default citation style, defined at the > citation processor's level. Styled citations override locally the > default style. Again, a processor not handling a given style is expected > to fallback to default style. > > As a consequence, there is no special syntax for "author-in-text" style. > But we can suggest one for back-end processors. We might want to stick > to the most complete one, BibLaTeX, IIUC, and /require/ processors to > support, at least: > > [cite/text: ...] > [cite/paren: ...] > > With this bare minimum, we ensure documents are somehow portable between > processors, and, therefore, export back-ends. > > Hopefully we can > move onto the next step: how should we interface citation processors and > Org? > > First, I think we agreed on the BIBLIOGRAPHY keyword, with the following > syntax: > > #+BIBLIOGRAPHY: file > #+BIBLIOGRAPHY: "file" > > There can be multiple BIBLIOGRAPHY keywords in a document (and > equivalent node properties). Also, I think Org should support a global > variable, e.g., `org-citation-default-bibliography'. > > I also think we defined a keyword to insert a bibliography: > > #+PRINT_BIBLIOGRAPHY: ... options ... (may be specific to citation processors) Looks good. > > - Export :: > > In this case, we may want to allow multiple processors for various > export back-ends. I thought about declaring active processors in > a document with a keyword, e.g., > > #+CITATION_PROCESSOR: org-ref :default-style foo :back-ends (latex) > #+CITATION_PROCESSOR: citeproc :default-style bar > > and with a global variable, e.g., `org-citation-export-default' which > could be, e.g., > > '((default :defaut-style "authoryear" :back-ends (latex))) > > but could become, with appropriate libraries > > '((org-ref :defaut-style "authoryear" :back-ends (latex)) > (citeproc-org :default-style "style-file.csl" :back-ends nil)) > > where more specialized back-ends are used first. Note that `latex' > would mean `latex' and derived back-ends, e.g., `beamer'. > > Well, that's all for now. Again, I am not a citation specialist, so > I need feedback. Let's keep the ball rolling! Does that mean you'll be able to have the same or different processors for different backends? (Like biblatex for latex and citeproc-el for ODT/HTML/etc.; or when you need identical output you can use citeproc-el even for latex?) Again, thanks for all your work here. All the best, Denis