Org-mode mailing list
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: "Loris Bennett" <loris.bennett@fu-berlin.de>
To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Changed list indentation behavior: how to revert?
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 10:15:10 +0100
Message-ID: <87h7poibtt.fsf@hornfels.zedat.fu-berlin.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <m1zh3gxsin.fsf@nobis-it.eu>

Stefan Nobis <stefan-ml@snobis.de> writes:

> "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" <arne_bab@web.de> writes:
>
>> Sad story short:...
>
> I'm with you - last weekend I upgrade my OS and had quite some trouble
> to get everything working again and still have some nasty hoops to
> jump through.
>
> But on the other side: What are we talking about?
>
> Org had a given default configuration for quite some time. To be
> clear: THIS DID NOT CHANGE!
>
> But some people are upset now. Why? Because the emergent behaviour
> changed. Not the underlying default configuration, but in the context
> and details of how each individual uses Org for some users the default
> configuration was emergent and evident, but some other users did not
> perceive this default configuration.
>
> Now a simple setting, syncing Org with the defaults of Emacs and other
> modes with respect to RET and electric-indent-mode, make the OLD,
> UNCHANGED default configuration emergent for almost all users.
>
> These are very subtle effects inside a very complex environment.
>
> How should maintainers be able to foresee all possible environments
> and use cases and the resulting emergent behaviour?
>
> I'm really surprised that such a simple and insignificant breaking
> change results in such a uproar. If a new Org version make all old
> files completely unusable or a bunch of important features is totally
> broken, say nothing of babel works anymore - yes, is such a case I
> would understand the uproar.
>
> But ranting so loudly and insistent and continuously over such a minor
> details is really beyond me.
>
> And nobody has to read all NEWS and Changelogs for every single peace
> of software they are using. If nothing breaks maybe there is nothing
> to worry about. If some minor detail like the new emergent indentation
> behaviour annoys you - just have a quick look in the NEWS file of the
> new version. Is this really that hard?
>
> On the other hand: What's the alternative? Never change anything
> again? Maybe some users rely on the emergent behaviour of some bad
> bug (that has bad consequences for some other users). Should it never
> be changed, because it may annoy some users and they could be forced
> to read the NEWS file?
>
> You cannot have the cookie and eat it!
>
> So, everyone, please calm down and try not to overreact over really
> simple, negligible details.

To quote Randall Munroe:

"Every change breaks someone's workflow"[1]

Footnotes: 
[1]  https://xkcd.com/1172/

-- 
This signature is currently under construction.



  reply	other threads:[~2020-11-17  9:16 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 76+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-11-13 17:30 Karl Voit
2020-11-13 21:10 ` Gustavo Barros
2020-11-13 21:38   ` Jean Louis
2020-11-14  3:02     ` Greg Minshall
2020-11-13 21:47   ` Jean Louis
2020-11-13 22:13     ` Gustavo Barros
2020-11-13 22:21       ` Jean Louis
2020-11-14 17:28         ` Diego Zamboni
2020-11-14 19:10           ` Jean Louis
2020-11-15 12:44             ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-11-15 13:26               ` Jean Louis
2020-11-15 21:59                 ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-11-15 22:15                   ` Jean Louis
2020-11-16  7:15                   ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-16  6:26               ` Greg Minshall
2020-11-14 10:45   ` Diego Zamboni
2020-11-13 21:31 ` Jean Louis
2020-11-14 22:43 ` David Rogers
2020-11-15  5:38   ` Jean Louis
2020-11-15  7:47     ` David Rogers
2020-11-15  8:54       ` Jean Louis
2020-11-15 10:37       ` Greg Minshall
2020-11-15 11:42         ` Tim Cross
2020-11-15 11:48         ` Gustavo Barros
2020-11-15 11:58           ` Detlef Steuer
2020-11-15 12:09           ` Jean Louis
2020-11-15 14:50             ` Gustavo Barros
2020-11-15 15:11               ` Jean Louis
2020-11-15 10:44       ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-15 11:22         ` Detlef Steuer
2020-11-15 14:03           ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-11-16  5:24             ` Kyle Meyer
2020-11-16  6:41               ` Tim Cross
2020-11-16  7:15                 ` Tim Cross
2020-11-16 11:21                   ` Gustavo Barros
2020-11-16 23:24                     ` T.F. Torrey
2020-11-17  1:21                       ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-17  7:01                         ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-17  7:48                       ` Michal Politowski
2020-11-19  4:17                     ` Marcel Ventosa
2020-11-16  8:06                 ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-11-16 12:10                 ` Bill Burdick
2020-11-16  6:54               ` Greg Minshall
2020-11-16  7:12                 ` Tim Cross
2020-11-17  4:03                   ` Greg Minshall
2020-11-17  5:25                     ` Tim Cross
2020-11-17 13:15                       ` Greg Minshall
2020-11-16  7:01               ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-16  7:22                 ` Tim Cross
2020-11-16 16:04                   ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-16 16:26                     ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-16 18:12                       ` gyro funch
2020-11-16 18:48                         ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-16 19:41                           ` Bill Burdick
2020-11-16 19:56                             ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-16 21:50                             ` Tim Cross
2020-11-16 23:01                               ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-16 21:44                           ` Tim Cross
2020-11-16 18:20                       ` gyro funch
2020-11-16 20:56                       ` Tim Cross
2020-11-16 21:35                         ` Bill Burdick
2020-11-16 22:44                         ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-16 23:55                         ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-17  9:05                           ` Stefan Nobis
2020-11-17  9:15                             ` Loris Bennett [this message]
2020-11-17  9:32                             ` Diego Zamboni
2020-11-17 14:29                             ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-17 16:25                               ` Robert Pluim
2020-11-16 23:39                       ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-16 21:35                     ` Tim Cross
2020-11-17  0:11                       ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-17  8:45                         ` Detlef Steuer
2020-11-17  9:41                           ` Jean Louis
2020-11-17 15:33                     ` Maxim Nikulin
2020-11-16 13:00                 ` Uwe Brauer
2020-11-16 16:10                   ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

  List information: https://orgmode.org

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=87h7poibtt.fsf@hornfels.zedat.fu-berlin.de \
    --to=loris.bennett@fu-berlin.de \
    --cc=emacs-orgmode@gnu.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link

Org-mode mailing list

This inbox may be cloned and mirrored by anyone:

	git clone --mirror https://orgmode.org/list/0 list/git/0.git

	# If you have public-inbox 1.1+ installed, you may
	# initialize and index your mirror using the following commands:
	public-inbox-init -V2 list list/ https://orgmode.org/list \
		emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
	public-inbox-index list

Example config snippet for mirrors.
Newsgroups are available over NNTP:
	nntp://news.yhetil.org/yhetil.emacs.orgmode
	nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.orgmode


AGPL code for this site: git clone https://public-inbox.org/public-inbox.git