From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id GQSeHU9mhGCZbgEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 20:41:19 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id aHyQF09mhGD8cgAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 18:41:19 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EFAD810358 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 20:41:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:41342 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1laNDN-0007ow-O5 for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 14:41:13 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50452) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1laNC1-0007oq-0E for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 14:39:49 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-x42a.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42a]:46860) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1laNBv-0006SB-DX for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 14:39:48 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-x42a.google.com with SMTP id x5so1352713wrv.13 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 11:39:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=CBjXSH5RaBL6VpnxpFWxKM+bch90Xn3rGS9cDvgYQcU=; b=q0HH190h5R9fej65hBVcZTrfmHlWBTGaYkHBYwrDPIoWbxy3zQTvry0KFP7vdeuStB z23vDMF6uCGVLHUNMWfzeSitwSBjQrRMpaKNwBJrR9uwjoNNxRfZqJ7xIL0i9YeGrxgg r3wwDaabf4D6ACS+VksD8c6HVPOpb7bVKTA8Ek4MF1DH5XTtTpg3JiNVYGNYG6lRIxoT Nd6FIx8vRKoLu+c5X0/zDGevm4dTnGxJDqwyMIf1O+oD2Z6BttzVF4Qabo0riVkt+tSb YOYD3A+ikCjw8oroEYDJ7dhn74VTaNtyvReLdrns1XcYxVFG+gHtcgyXMtU5IMzaUaoN ltsA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=CBjXSH5RaBL6VpnxpFWxKM+bch90Xn3rGS9cDvgYQcU=; b=U0QXW71UOfCG/3CGz1YWil6u0xV5OS17caOHiwUKI2Geyca+apyHV6OADWW+qq/lgL Qv7+Apdb31z4nej74GrWkg34NabvAGVB96FvbrFjnCgEvEI7jyLmkmdYJjYSm3GZVNS4 x3bx2rmI1779nUbUJfvKtnCrRYhkXRNTD1woDKCNK+40bOTdW/MH+DYgayxZqmaLFW/+ OLW93yASUwcBk7jTK0+plvSxexVpUqDryFmJSB2G52+cdjAoPPokNEMeuGKt5p5JQR3D I/lKDb/J0CmMWo1TeBU7p3xqSf48uVRtnLvakbqJD2wGp/N88LcRBWTHSm3yk93qwGjX gwsg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533HmlknhpR6pu19/HWnUkWFoS16nngdD4i2x6WfZu3xUnkTuCwE vlcjbWRBetIM2T8rOeSD+sOP+R6s6AjPehDgpho= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw79/8ozjupO3hzMiEOBwjZ6NWEZ9EAgmH63w5/mbDBMmmMggWyB+qHV0fZMGDTzKOn6JrDt7hMKyH0vvGMRIg= X-Received: by 2002:adf:ec02:: with SMTP id x2mr2616304wrn.35.1619289581753; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 11:39:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <874ktu8gr9.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87mu5xpm4x.fsf@gnu.org> <87img81ad7.fsf@gnu.org> <20210324182751.GA8721@atlantis> <87czuzprmh.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87sg3neo0k.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87eef35h7n.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87a6pr5g4m.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <877dkt2pce.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <878s57fubm.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> In-Reply-To: <878s57fubm.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> From: "Bruce D'Arcus" Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2021 14:39:34 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: wip-cite status question and feedback To: "Bruce D'Arcus" , =?UTF-8?Q?Andr=C3=A1s_Simonyi?= , "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42a; envelope-from=bdarcus@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42a.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1619289676; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=CBjXSH5RaBL6VpnxpFWxKM+bch90Xn3rGS9cDvgYQcU=; b=eICjBvoSiHpXYiZyaTxsUp5hSHWuqlUgWL0ZHdZCq+WCDCqaLRewuQdgdNYVNBrRZLMhiQ /tY8E4ICEWGWeEKvLrYiynW0UyvLgbDs/hnspklFexKFuuxQr90FGvve6ra6pHLOlRHlMW 0XQh0S4j/vBC1e+hocB57WGISPCxdEBDMa9rgmj1yBpQk2K8Rh7/fjQ/9poK04i8WLoLam 5ScLJdSbBVU/n1kdZbvh+nWG00J7t5LfHLZEc+tv3QZgcwRr1brVVZNKibXiDNCaL6G4xn u6SWNfr26fXZoha7/+yvsgH2W1ZQhEy5E2ckoobVRMb7xrv1SXgrmeeUQR00HQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1619289676; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=u1YDwixIm1JdpPqGSM6JAuv6+pysI2enyonYhLISYbbeul+WmsvZ2YTAg/bEaLYt3AqnPy XAWDp2P8iJhOGyEs/qE8kSTfeJ54vKfe2qCiNjOneLW81WIwYDg16Vn/AaUBwH/CWwhsRL lUKvKLyBuHug2uoU9j5lQ1zwfVCptc6VWPrRUIB3hc+DjhY360LwbPxHJogN3sTGnGQZXA W5xWkany64QMRCmrSQd7VEGJ05u93AxmN1rZVM+SwL/2Bl9fNgiGPGKim8Nzy1zEFUGSos yoF0TSSRSmcWo4kuQOmv6HeQ7oFzUzj+rvH24YVxUbPNQJ9RpnZglivnAQIWoA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=q0HH190h; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.64 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=q0HH190h; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: EFAD810358 X-Spam-Score: -1.64 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: WBEHkA3I7RNa On Sat, Apr 24, 2021 at 1:47 PM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > > Hello, > > "Bruce D'Arcus" writes: > > > Some sentence with a concluding citation [cite:@key]. > > > > ... that should end up like this: > > > > Some sentence with a concluding citation.[1] > > > > Aside: looking through the CSL spec, it doesn't seem this is > > documented. It obviously should be. > > > > And I don't remember if that convention is locale-specific; e.g. if > > while that's the standard in English, it could be different in France. > > > > In any case, this sort of punctuation modification should be possible. > > Could you show more example of this, possibly including quotes the > citation, or better, a precise description of the punctuation > modification you have in mind? Yes. Denis lays it out in this comment: https://github.com/citation-style-language/documentation/issues/139#issuecomment-825934813 What he's arguing is that the rules vary by locale, with German, for example (he's employed at a Swiss-German institution, I believe), having different conventions than English, and American English different than British English. But an example from American English for illustration, derived from Denis' examples. "A simple quote" [cite:@doe]. When rendered, that should be this in an author-date style: "A simple quote" (Doe 2021). ... and this in a note style: "A simple quote."[^1] So that rule would suggest something like: - if a citation concludes a sentence, move the note mark and whatever trailing quotation mark, outside the period. But, Denis continues, "While this is perfectly acceptable in American English, it is not in German, or even in British English. Here we have to know whether the final period is part of the original quotation. If yes, it will be put inside the quotes, otherwise outside." I'll paste the rest of his examples at the end. It's possible his rule here is more general, and would still be acceptable in American English. Does that help explain? > What may be possible to do is to have `org-cite-wrap-footnote' doing > such a modification according to an optional argument. So any caller > (i.e., a processor) could choose to activate it or not, perhaps > according to language. This sounds like what would be needed, maybe with a sensible default. Bruce >>> Denis' other examples: Quotation ending with a period: "A simple quote."[^1] Quotation not ending with a period: Variant a) "A simple quote".[^1] Variant b) "A simple quote"[^1].