Org-mode mailing list
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
To: Gustavo Barros <gusbrs.2016@gmail.com>
Cc: Greg Minshall <minshall@umich.edu>,
	David Rogers <davidandrewrogers@gmail.com>,
	Karl Voit <devnull@Karl-Voit.at>,
	emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Karl Voit <news2042@Karl-Voit.at>
Subject: Re: Changed list indentation behavior: how to revert?
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 18:11:24 +0300
Message-ID: <X7FFHNMcclY0U4R4@protected.rcdrun.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87lff2d68j.fsf@gmail.com>

* Gustavo Barros <gusbrs.2016@gmail.com> [2020-11-15 17:51]:
> > I do, thank you for reminder. Us in plural are sometimes teachers or
> > mentors who educate other people who are supposed to edit Org files in
> > most simple manner, and those people will never be able to write to
> > this list to find out which option where, not even to know about
> > indentation things. When default is introduced then all people
> > following an educator has to turn off default. They will not even know
> > why. One default introduced can cause butterfly effect.
> > 
> 
> Also a fellow teacher here.  As you, I'm trying to transmit this information
> to you and others, because I find it useful.  Nobody needs to use `M-RET',
> `C-RET' and `C-j'.

You are right, I am totally in agreement that it is useful as a
feature. In general I am using electric-indent mode.

Though that it is introduced by default is arguable what can be seen in responses here.

> > General design of user interface should not conquer their habits
> > unless substantial amount of users have demanded it so.
> 
> And how exactly would maintainers know that?  Do you claim to be speaking on
> their (substantial amount of users) behalf?

In this specific case it is easy to know what was the condition before
and what is condition after introduction of that new feature. Somebody
offered reasoning and I have seen 3-4 people declaring that function
works OK. Super fine. But that is not reasoning enough to change some
default behavior of a program for maybe hundreds of thousands of
users.

Better reasoning could be to ask on the mailing list what people think
about it and how they are using indentation as that way more
information may be obtained if such or any new feature would be more
useful or contraproductive for users.

You ask them.

> Please, don't confuse.  I said you should *not* use (the command)
> `org-indent-region' if you were systematically manually overriding
> indentation defaults.  I recommended to set the user option
> `org-adapt-indentation' to nil, which seems to be the desired value
> for most of the manifestations on this thread.

Maybe I made a mistake, as that is exactly what I did set. 

I am using Org for some years, so of course it came to me very
surprising. Person who just start using it recently with such defaults
should rarely find it awkward as person learns about it and assumes it
is how it is.


  reply	other threads:[~2020-11-15 19:49 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 76+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-11-13 17:30 Karl Voit
2020-11-13 21:10 ` Gustavo Barros
2020-11-13 21:38   ` Jean Louis
2020-11-14  3:02     ` Greg Minshall
2020-11-13 21:47   ` Jean Louis
2020-11-13 22:13     ` Gustavo Barros
2020-11-13 22:21       ` Jean Louis
2020-11-14 17:28         ` Diego Zamboni
2020-11-14 19:10           ` Jean Louis
2020-11-15 12:44             ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-11-15 13:26               ` Jean Louis
2020-11-15 21:59                 ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-11-15 22:15                   ` Jean Louis
2020-11-16  7:15                   ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-16  6:26               ` Greg Minshall
2020-11-14 10:45   ` Diego Zamboni
2020-11-13 21:31 ` Jean Louis
2020-11-14 22:43 ` David Rogers
2020-11-15  5:38   ` Jean Louis
2020-11-15  7:47     ` David Rogers
2020-11-15  8:54       ` Jean Louis
2020-11-15 10:37       ` Greg Minshall
2020-11-15 11:42         ` Tim Cross
2020-11-15 11:48         ` Gustavo Barros
2020-11-15 11:58           ` Detlef Steuer
2020-11-15 12:09           ` Jean Louis
2020-11-15 14:50             ` Gustavo Barros
2020-11-15 15:11               ` Jean Louis [this message]
2020-11-15 10:44       ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-15 11:22         ` Detlef Steuer
2020-11-15 14:03           ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-11-16  5:24             ` Kyle Meyer
2020-11-16  6:41               ` Tim Cross
2020-11-16  7:15                 ` Tim Cross
2020-11-16 11:21                   ` Gustavo Barros
2020-11-16 23:24                     ` T.F. Torrey
2020-11-17  1:21                       ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-17  7:01                         ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-17  7:48                       ` Michal Politowski
2020-11-19  4:17                     ` Marcel Ventosa
2020-11-16  8:06                 ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-11-16 12:10                 ` Bill Burdick
2020-11-16  6:54               ` Greg Minshall
2020-11-16  7:12                 ` Tim Cross
2020-11-17  4:03                   ` Greg Minshall
2020-11-17  5:25                     ` Tim Cross
2020-11-17 13:15                       ` Greg Minshall
2020-11-16  7:01               ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-16  7:22                 ` Tim Cross
2020-11-16 16:04                   ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-16 16:26                     ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-16 18:12                       ` gyro funch
2020-11-16 18:48                         ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-16 19:41                           ` Bill Burdick
2020-11-16 19:56                             ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-16 21:50                             ` Tim Cross
2020-11-16 23:01                               ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-16 21:44                           ` Tim Cross
2020-11-16 18:20                       ` gyro funch
2020-11-16 20:56                       ` Tim Cross
2020-11-16 21:35                         ` Bill Burdick
2020-11-16 22:44                         ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-16 23:55                         ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-17  9:05                           ` Stefan Nobis
2020-11-17  9:15                             ` Loris Bennett
2020-11-17  9:32                             ` Diego Zamboni
2020-11-17 14:29                             ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-17 16:25                               ` Robert Pluim
2020-11-16 23:39                       ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-16 21:35                     ` Tim Cross
2020-11-17  0:11                       ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-17  8:45                         ` Detlef Steuer
2020-11-17  9:41                           ` Jean Louis
2020-11-17 15:33                     ` Maxim Nikulin
2020-11-16 13:00                 ` Uwe Brauer
2020-11-16 16:10                   ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

  List information: https://orgmode.org

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=X7FFHNMcclY0U4R4@protected.rcdrun.com \
    --to=bugs@gnu.support \
    --cc=davidandrewrogers@gmail.com \
    --cc=devnull@Karl-Voit.at \
    --cc=emacs-orgmode@gnu.org \
    --cc=gusbrs.2016@gmail.com \
    --cc=minshall@umich.edu \
    --cc=news2042@Karl-Voit.at \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link

Org-mode mailing list

This inbox may be cloned and mirrored by anyone:

	git clone --mirror https://orgmode.org/list/0 list/git/0.git

	# If you have public-inbox 1.1+ installed, you may
	# initialize and index your mirror using the following commands:
	public-inbox-init -V2 list list/ https://orgmode.org/list \
		emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
	public-inbox-index list

Example config snippet for mirrors.
Newsgroups are available over NNTP:
	nntp://news.yhetil.org/yhetil.emacs.orgmode
	nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.orgmode


AGPL code for this site: git clone https://public-inbox.org/public-inbox.git