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From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
To: daniela-spit@gmx.it
Cc: tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org,
	Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Emacs inserts hardwired org-agenda-files variable, overwriting user options
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2020 16:19:45 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <X9YU8WHGa9p+PQi8@protected.rcdrun.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <trinity-74670328-cc54-4bef-9948-cda161bcf3f6-1607838698255@3c-app-mailcom-bs11>

* daniela-spit@gmx.it <daniela-spit@gmx.it> [2020-12-13 08:52]:
> > In general Org mode is excellent for personal TODO lists. That is what
> > is offered in the menu, that is what is advertised. Problem is that
> > there is no warning for users that personal TODO lists are not meant
> > for anything but that. There is no collaboration, putting TODO items
> > eveywhere IS procrastination. Using org-agenda to find procrastination
> > is another procrastination. Trying to glue everything together is
> > absence of good planning and not planning.
> 
> Carsten would disagree with that evaluation.  It is also for organising
> professional life - with plain text.  Still, if you are disorganized,
> you can use it.  Or perhaps if one is lazy - like myself, many things
> I do nat have an interest in but have to oversee at least some parts of
> them.

Agree or not, it is written in the manual. The paradigm of organizing
life does not inherit from Org. What inherits from Org is the paradigm
to put any actionable items anywhere and compensate for scattered
things by using org-agenda.

Reference to manual:
(info "(org) TODO Items")

And it is definitely not a "plain text". It is probably largest mode
for Emacs, a true and full application handling much more than plain
text. It has more than 129 Emacs Lisp files. Maybe in beginning it was
plain text, not any more now. Now it is a wannabe database.

As I did notice the pattern of compensation for procrastination, and
that I need more and more Emacs Lisp to fullfil basic human real world
needs, then I rather made my own system that is meta level to Org
files. Collaboration becomes possible due to the database being
designed for multiple users. Privileges become possible for same
reason. Automatic version control becomes possible database
backed. Changes can be tracked back to know which user changed
SCHEDULED to DEADLINE or DEADLINE to SCHEDULED or moved SCHEDULED
forward in time or changed DEADLINE not to be DEADLINE any more. Who
assigned which task to which person is easily viewable. People
assigned need to be contacted, list of those people is there with
hyperlinks and functions to send them email, SMS or call them. Org
agenda need not compensate for anything. I can also put scattered
tasks and note as I wish but I don't. My capture templates are over
1100+ subjects among which I probably use actively only 20-50, did not
count it. Emacs Lisp handling that is currently 137 kilobytes. It did
not yet reach 4.7 megabytes as Org distribution. I can convert
everything to Org file when necessary.

Even editing Org file by updating database is possible, but I do not
wish to go back to complexities. My "headings" I call hyperdocuments
which can be just anything. They can be packaged together or released
together with the Org file summarizing them all. They can become Org
file all together. It can be markdown, really plain text, video files,
references of all kinds, also Org files, or just headings of
it. Everything becomes elementary object of one bigger picture
according to Engelbart:

Doug Engelbart Institute - Boosting mankind's capability for coping with complex, urgent problems
https://www.dougengelbart.org/

Draft OHS-Project Plan
https://web.archive.org/web/20070704185333/http://www.bootstrap.org/augdocs/bi-2120.html

TECHNOLOGY TEMPLATE PROJECT OHS Framework 
https://www.dougengelbart.org/content/view/110/460/

Design of any software would be better by following the Open
Hyperdocument System project plan.

> I often include org commands in source code which I can then parse.
> For instance, I can use it to determine the cyclomatic complexity of
> code, and help in admin tasks.

I have no idea what is cyclomatic. Code definitely get complex. Give
some example how are you putting org commands in source code.

On my side I also use GNU Hyperbole package. In Emacs lisp M-RET on a
function brings me to function definition which is very handy. I can
invoke email on region or buffer text. I can define buttons in any
source code to jump anywhere else. It works in Org as well.

Org hyperlinks can also work in any buffer including in source
codes. I am not sure if that is wanted. Text is definitely not any
more "plain text" as soon as it has Org hyperlink.

GNU Hyperbole type of hyperlinks:

 <(Look up word)>
 <(Find people without assigned groups)>

This is because these hyperlinks are in a separate directory file and
thus separate from the text file where they are located.

Org hyperlinks need to be included in the text and would look like
this:

[[elisp:(look-up-word)][Look up word]]

I do tend to have separate hyperlink meta data from the hyperlink
itself. I would prefer something more generic like

 look up word [3:I49] to expand to hyperlink 3 words backwords or
 [I49:3] 3 words forward when parsing and displaying such a file. Or
 simply [I49] to become hyperlink itself to the node 49.

 If node 49 is WWW hyperlink, let user go there. If it is note, show
 him the note, if it is something else, go there. Jump anywhere
 including to any paragraphs. And that hyperlinks are provided by
 centralized database of all hyperlinks and hyperdocuments.

Jean




  reply	other threads:[~2020-12-13 17:36 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 39+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-11-29 18:52 Emacs inserts hardwired org-agenda-files variable, overwriting user options daniela-spit
2020-11-29 20:07 ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-29 20:19   ` daniela-spit
2020-11-29 21:01     ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-29 21:02     ` Kyle Meyer
2020-11-29 22:08       ` daniela-spit
2020-12-11  3:59         ` TRS-80
2020-12-11  4:16           ` daniela-spit
2020-12-11  4:32           ` daniela-spit
2020-12-11  8:25             ` tomas
2020-12-11 13:47               ` daniela-spit
2020-12-11 13:59                 ` Detlef Steuer
2020-12-11 14:18                   ` daniela-spit
2020-12-11 14:23                   ` Christopher Dimech
2020-12-11 14:26                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2020-12-11 14:47                   ` daniela-spit
2020-12-12  2:35                   ` Jean Louis
2020-12-12  2:41                     ` daniela-spit
2020-12-13  5:19                       ` Jean Louis
2020-12-13  5:51                         ` daniela-spit
2020-12-13 13:19                           ` Jean Louis [this message]
2020-12-13 17:49                             ` Christopher Dimech
2020-12-13 20:28                               ` Jean Louis
2020-12-13  3:33                     ` TRS-80
2020-12-13  8:46                       ` Jean Louis
2020-12-13  9:28                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2020-12-13 17:31                           ` Jean Louis
2020-12-13 17:57                             ` Christopher Dimech
2020-12-13 17:59                             ` Christopher Dimech
2020-12-14 12:49                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2020-12-14 19:39                               ` Jean Louis
2020-12-11 14:43                 ` tomas
2020-12-11 14:54                   ` daniela-spit
2020-12-11 15:46                     ` tomas
2020-12-11 15:58                       ` daniela-spit
2020-12-11  6:25           ` Jean Louis
2020-11-29 20:15 ` Jean Louis
2020-11-29 20:46   ` daniela-spit
2020-11-29 20:58     ` Jean Louis

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