From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id iPWWO3qt11+wBwAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 18:22:50 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id uIdCN3qt119zcAAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 18:22:50 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A7E59403E8 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 18:22:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:55008 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kosUj-0007Yj-95 for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 13:22:49 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56632) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kosTh-0007Vd-22 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 13:21:45 -0500 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:60305) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kosTe-0004v3-At; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 13:21:44 -0500 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.157.34.185]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000000308FB.000000005FD7AD31.0000635D; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 11:21:37 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 21:16:51 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Gerry Agbobada Subject: Re: Emacs as an Org LSP server Message-ID: References: <87o8kf69tm.fsf@ucc.asn.au> <87v9d66l75.fsf@gmail.com> <87a6ugpftr.fsf@gmail.com> <877dpkpefs.fsf@gmail.com> <5b6aab88-80c1-441b-bd69-fefa50bdd11f@www.fastmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5b6aab88-80c1-441b-bd69-fefa50bdd11f@www.fastmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/2.0 (3d08634) (2020-11-07) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: "General discussions about Org-mode." , Richard Stallman Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.81 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 4A7E59403E8 X-Spam-Score: -1.81 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: zLgd16SGDrwi * Gerry Agbobada [2020-12-14 20:32]: > > > It may all look nice and shiny. But what you people don't understand > > is that it is Microsoft and deep meaning of Microsoft one can know if > > one researches the history as only so one can see the present and look > > into future. Microsoft never changed its strategies. Language server > > protocol is just another branch of possible strategies to take away > > people's computing. It is matter of advertising and making it popular, > > when all the fish are in the net that is where final result comes, and > > that is to take away people's freedom and computing to centralized > > places. > > > > > > Hello, > > You made is a very clear point about _not_ understanding that > "server" does not mean "machine controlled by Microsoft". As long as > you refuse to understand that, it's very hard to discuss seriously > on the matter. I attached as a picture how I plan to summarize LSP > to new Doom Emacs users that don't know much about Emacs > either. Hopefully this will be clear enough and show that : Well that is your way of understanding what I said, while I never said that it cannot run locally neither I said that it will be run by Microsoft, though it probably will if it get popularized. Microsoft have filed patent for LSP languag server protocol: https://uspto.report/patent/app/20190149346 Why should Emacs develop and be built on protocol that Microsoft wish to protect as their own, to control and use to subjugate population of developers? Emacs is free software and shall remain far dubious activities of Microsoft. You can tell me how everybody can host one's own website, but reality is that people don't. Everybody can host one's own code, software, git, packages, but reality is that people don't and majority look for gratis solutions online. Corporations take over the control and have to earn money somehow, so they trap users into their strategies. Just as git can be decentralized and installed on many various online servers, it is rather not and it is centralized on Github mostly that further traps developers by their proprietary eye candies. In general Github/Microsoft take away specific control and freedom 0 from users to run the software as they wish: https://sanctum.geek.nz/why-not-github.html When such tool that takes away computing becomes popular by marketing and advertising it will be definitely offered by largest corporations, which in turn will trap developers in future to their online tools and online server side computing, it opens plethora of future privacy issues, centralization and control from entities like Microsoft and others. It really does not matter that it is all nicely packed into marketing pitch about "open source" and "helpful to developers" and that it is now not centralized and that people find it good. Marketing from those corporations created that environment of acceptance that computing may be taken away. Their marketing pushes that people adopt LSP as from God granted. And people currently do not see that flying to the source of light will not let all flies survive. Microsoft NEVER does any move in the public without having clearly defined strategy on how to gain control over people's computing. Jean See the future.