From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id kPvfKo7dwmMXIwEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 17:51:26 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id iG3pKo7dwmOxfwAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 17:51:26 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 39DBD2FABA for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 17:51:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pGjjq-0001Bj-5a; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 11:50:38 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pGjjo-0001Ar-Hr for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 11:50:36 -0500 Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pGjjn-0003Ze-2I for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 11:50:36 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject :Cc:To:From:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=6XocCNdleYMh0rfKnxtNZYBrJqX8PGbMPb5E2MM8APg=; b=jTccNxTS9uBC8B+CTIQjdCRjsk 8ln6v+22dk+n4GDlwgTVvNemoDRclRYT2sMCGBL5VfpdvanI/2mluaEKkBAyFDde3jOIevD6mr5uu 3Ybms51R1uK6YDEOk0DfMbK5GlRsTUPx4h4xVaH//B+1dUgHtEyXItk3lKa9AUpgCPo2xM+Tf2WiD vYiaP6x/VFxhmkL6el+YpgCgE6v/izhwLAv1NCPX12TbbarSBlRL6g0+NmeE1yHvJPIW/0k0hoi16 v4WkoKWMj9cxb7LyTVNoTeu/bi5JG3jB1iVV7yxQjEUr8DiTR7kxduhqz0rPsNEkIOTEM28s+w/gg AipyWuCQ==; Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1pGjjk-00070g-IR; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 17:50:32 +0100 Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2023 17:50:32 +0100 From: tomas@tuxteam.de To: Ihor Radchenko Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda Message-ID: References: <63c287ca.a70a0220.4bd14.873b@mx.google.com> <87pmbh1hgx.fsf@localhost> <63c2b8e4.a70a0220.e3b6d.0051@mx.google.com> <87edrxyyeq.fsf@localhost> <87bkn1yx59.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="rftGMFixdNe61CLi" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87bkn1yx59.fsf@localhost> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.199.139.25; envelope-from=tomas@tuxteam.de; helo=mail.tuxteam.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=tuxteam.de header.s=mail header.b=jTccNxTS; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1673715086; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=Lw11LUrWS1i2v791FKPWUTK5FrPwJgxG4ctzSWAy/0xbQnmEqToWDB2arTfvIFZppyRX/A PwluElKw6IKKTfjjlLuWH+uIF6hkZDN6binIjGR6QR9P1qhy+MdzoVptWO8Q4V4skHO9Z8 sRTOanO7ArrGqzqViTZUZr61kxzKF8aB2iOq+13fSAGl+zxIVAM3auOgE5r36+qT0MC+j7 n7kUoEIVtaspY5smUiy/h27kkXkrGJpNjY/nrdusu+6/SNkCGS77JK71jZIvKaex+7ePL7 io1m99ONKCTG61tp+R/FgX+yvQsr/v83oonQeENBbWRQRdDhhBQPSTAXqcan0g== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1673715086; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=6XocCNdleYMh0rfKnxtNZYBrJqX8PGbMPb5E2MM8APg=; b=DVJcisJuXYJfrszeLvS/odhloYjDWkS/IbNgrySCiaZ64gmpKb+u1RRNLq1uJsfm1tvxYc gdBeLUa3cK3rLQS9xBJNWaVv5QZPWPbK38qH3Ya6QIQElollvQ1wDUsgKERs7y6v8sR9Wt o7xXSwQW9CPDYjvDx1CGWaP0VZjdBlPQatg72PDBbYbuUxLe365U2Cp7AqoOmiFXN4j8jv NNpkJOvHjnxtlxRnL15E0GYyIHIZ7tMX0p0Ecgk1WQvWa7ip4M1JZRZgb7VLqPaKGT7h1o 2RX+3KhUS7Pb7Uxew478yYnj7KDPYQGx8fL5HS7w6LP13wB/uc/2RVyf7nmfiA== X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 39DBD2FABA X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=tuxteam.de header.s=mail header.b=jTccNxTS; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.01 X-Spam-Score: -4.01 X-TUID: vnRLO3U/tc7Q --rftGMFixdNe61CLi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jan 14, 2023 at 03:05:22PM +0000, Ihor Radchenko wrote: > writes: >=20 > > Now there's still enough work for the applications to do: presentation, > > parsing, disambiguation, if necessary asking the user for help. Someone > > mentioned PostgreSQL -- this is a nice example of what can be done beyo= nd > > the (comparatively!) boring details of time zone management :-) >=20 > Do I understand correctly that PostgreSQL insists on using timestamps > with time zone info in favour or ordinary timestamps? Exactly to avoid > issues with the same timestamp pointing to a different real time from > epoch depending on the current OS time zone setting? It doesn't insist: it offers both data types, but the docs are very clear on what they prefer. > Thinking more about this, I can see how it can be important for > clocking, and similar auto-recorded information. Users may be surprised > to record clocking on some task yesterday just to find the clocking data > in future upon travelling from Singapore to San Fran. >=20 > So, when implementing time zones, we may need to take care about adding > the time zone info when auto-inserting timestamps. >=20 > In addition, we may provide some mechanism to set the time zone for: > 1. Individual files > 2. For all files, including possible time zone transitions over time. >=20 > What I mean by (2) is when the user travels from, say, Australia to USA, > it could be possible to say: Use Australia/Seattle up to certain time > and then use USA/Austin. >=20 > However, the above considerations are just nice-to-haves and should not > be a blocker to a more generic time zone support in Org. Having an > ability to specify time zones manually will already cater needs for a > number of users. Definitely. But the time stamp (with time zone) in itself doesn't carry enough context to actually decide that. It's even not that easy to wrap one's head around dates that "travel" (the easiest example would be perhaps: "9:00 show up at work" -- when DST takes effect, it's still 9:00 whatever the local time is). When you have appointments with people in totally diverse time zones, perhaps dates tend to be more fixed wrt UTC. Cheers --=20 t --rftGMFixdNe61CLi Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EABECAB0WIQRp53liolZD6iXhAoIFyCz1etHaRgUCY8LdWAAKCRAFyCz1etHa RhKcAJ4y9NCMWxFQo0vzRRGcHd9RB542MQCfRt4nVnqYtj17KALBBsrLPdUQiGc= =Bca0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --rftGMFixdNe61CLi--