From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id OAwcBKmeKl8weQAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 11:57:29 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id YBZiO6ieKl9pbAAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 11:57:28 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E298940291 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 2020 11:57:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:52768 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k3I2w-0005sF-Nk for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 07:57:26 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43520) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k3I2d-0005s9-5x for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 07:57:07 -0400 Received: from static.214.254.202.116.clients.your-server.de ([116.202.254.214]:38734 helo=ciao.gmane.io) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k3I2b-0008JT-Fv for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 07:57:06 -0400 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k3I2W-0003fZ-Vz for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 13:57:00 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org From: Maxim Nikulin Subject: Re: Website revamp? Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 18:56:55 +0700 Message-ID: References: <87zh95g2ns.fsf@gmail.com> <87mu3hduk1.fsf@gmail.com> <87wo2lyvid.fsf@gnu.org> <87k0yldpuj.fsf@gmail.com> <20200730172204.GB17223@volibear> <87ime4ev3s.fsf@gmail.com> <20200730190331.GD17223@volibear> <878seyhj38.fsf@gmail.com> <87bljs6hph.fsf@gmail.com> <87r1so2u2b.fsf@yandex.com> <875za05l7v.fsf@gmail.com> <875z9y4cma.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 In-Reply-To: <875z9y4cma.fsf@gmail.com> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geo-emacs-orgmode@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/08/05 07:04:45 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: 43 X-Spam_score: 4.3 X-Spam_bar: ++++ X-Spam_report: (4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=1, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: scn0 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 2.09 X-TUID: c6D0RNwsklqK 04.08.2020 22:53, TEC wrote: > > Please, share your thoughts! It is just opinion, I am unsure even that all suggestions are consistent or reachable with reasonable efforts. Since it is you who actually is doing the work, it is your right to choose which arguments should be ignored. On a phone I would expect to see something like #+begin_quote Org mode for GNU Emacs - Keeping notes - maintaining TODO lists - planning projects - authoring documents with a fast and effective plain-text system #+end_quote Sorry, but "An innovative and intuitive plain text markup syntax" means nothing to me. "Created by Carsten Dominik in 2003" is a sign of mature and stable enough software without disgusting "since ..." but contradicts a bit with "innovative". In a "full" version my suggestion is to minimize amount of text significantly larger than 1em. 4em is excessively huge font for normal monitor. I am in doubt it is feasible to require readable but not oversized font on mobile devices, 1366x768px laptops, and 4k monitors simultaneously. On the other hand, I hope, donate links work but in new design thy are not contrast and eye catching enough despite their colors. In my opinion on a laptop/desktop screen the banner should not occupy so much vertical space. I like the idea of adaptive one or two column layout depending of screen width that you have shown in another message. I see 3 category of users requiring content different to some extent but should be easily recognizable: - Newcomers need to recognize if org-mode is able to do what are they looking for. So features should be presented for them, they should notice links to docs and an instruction how to try it - "Help desk stuff" in a broad sense who are not aware of org-mode but have to help some person when local org-mode guru is not available. They need to quickly recognize what is org-mode is at all, so they may look for general descriptions, docs, specific discussion groups. Unsure but even "Download" instead "Install" might be more noticeable. - Experienced users are more or less familiar with the site, they may look for project news, hacks, how to debug particular issue or to submit a patch. They should be able to find info on not so often used feature or to find specific place in docs to send a link to a friend. Unfortunately I am not familiar enough with content of the site to recommend "hot" links to the main page. Priority of content is different for mobile and laptop/desktop visitors but the latter should see content, not just banner and void on the home page. There is room for improvement of current home page, but it is more informative than the new design demo. > Are you saying that you find the current mention of Emacs in the > instillation page works well? I do not remember how I realized that org-mode is a part of .deb package when I decided to try org-mode for the first time. I tend to believe that is not immediately clear that first paragraph could be just an alternative to second one. Maybe it should be emphasizing with headers: "Use org-mode bundled with Emacs" vs. "Install latest stable org-mode package from ELPA". Please, fix a typo. Should be "Installation". > Even better - having two or three different demo files based on the use > case of > the new user - e.g. programmer, author, organisation - or something like > that. It would be great but it requires more work. Minor remarks: - Should not be logo + "Org mode" in the navigation bar a link similar to "Home"? - I am afraid that without clear sign that demo page is an experiment, results in search engines could be distorted. Red block with text like "See official site https://orgmode.org" and robots.txt file could help to avoid confusion of people and crawlers.