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From: David Rogers <davidandrewrogers@gmail.com>
To: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
Cc: Karl Voit <devnull@Karl-Voit.at>,
	Karl Voit <news2042@Karl-Voit.at>,
	emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Changed list indentation behavior: how to revert?
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 23:47:31 -0800
Message-ID: <s0e4klr3vu4.fsf@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <X7C+1LyTrp4C472E@protected.rcdrun.com> (Jean Louis's message of "Sun, 15 Nov 2020 08:38:28 +0300")

Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> writes:

> * David Rogers <davidandrewrogers@gmail.com> [2020-11-15 01:44]:
>> Hello
>> 
>> After reading several of the responses to this, I’ve started to 
>> wonder: Is
>> electric-indent-mode broken for everybody because it contains a 
>> bug or
>> design flaw, or is electric-indent-mode working fine but simply 
>> not suitable
>> for every situation?
>> 
>> In other words, where is the “right” place to fix this problem?
>
> It was working in Org file automatically well and fine.
>
> As if user decides to indent, electric-indent would help the 
> user:
>
> ** HeadingRET
>
> At this point below user may decide to indent:
>
>    - First itemRET after RET
>    ^
>    - the new line appears here
>
> User has to move the cursor to the point shown above for 
> indentation
> to begin. That is good as user decides it and it is text, it is 
> not
> programming language with special convention for indentation.
>
> Electric indent mode always worked like that, including in Org 
> mode
> without any problems.
>
> The change that is introduced in my opinion, and I did not look 
> into
> code, is changing how electric indent mode behaves specifically 
> for
> Org mode as somebody assumes that immediately after headingRET 
> the new
> lines should be indented, like if there is some special 
> indentation
> convention for Org mode.
>
> So without user deciding to indent, it does following:
>
> ** HeadingRET
>    - First line here
>    
> But there is no indentation convetion for Org mode of that kind 
> that I
> know.
>
> The Org file shown on https://orgmode.org/ does not follow that 
> type
> of indenting.
>
> Common indenting in Org mode is:
>
> * Heading
> Text
> ** Heading
> Text
> *** Heading text
> Text
> **** Heading
> Text here
> ***** Heading
> Text
> ****** Heading
> Text
>
> AND if somebody likes to indent differently electric indent mode 
> would help.
>
> Common indenting is not (other may tell me that I am wrong if 
> this statement is wrong)
>
> * Heading
>   Text
> ** Heading
>    Text
> *** Heading text
>     Text
> **** Heading
>      Text here
> ***** Heading
>       Text
> ****** Heading
>        Text
>
> The above change was introduced as default to many users and is 
> not
> conveniente.
>
> Especially not conveniente I find that I need to delete by using
> backspace all the spaces inserted that I did not want after 
> pressing
> RET after inserting heading.
>
> Some people will insert ONLY heading as a test without any text.

Thank you! You’ve really explained this clearly, and I understand 
your point.
Am I crazy to say that your last example of unwanted behavior is 
easier for me to read and understand? (and to me the common 
indenting is a hopeless mess?)

But I can see potential problems with it too - a long paragraph on 
a narrow screen would become hard to read and edit if there were 
very many indent levels. And I have no idea how code blocks would 
be affected because I don’t write any real code.

If the new behavior really does what you showed under “Common 
indenting is not…”, then I think I prefer the new way for my own 
use. And it makes sense to me that it should automatically work 
like that. I think the cursor jumping all the way back to the left 
margin after I’ve created a multi-starred heading makes no sense. 
But I’m also likely to forget to consider things that might go 
wrong with implementing a new plan, so I’m not a great judge.

Does the new behavior “break” something for you (causing errors 
etc), or does it just look wrong?

-- 
David Rogers


  reply	other threads:[~2020-11-15  7:48 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 76+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-11-13 17:30 Karl Voit
2020-11-13 21:10 ` Gustavo Barros
2020-11-13 21:38   ` Jean Louis
2020-11-14  3:02     ` Greg Minshall
2020-11-13 21:47   ` Jean Louis
2020-11-13 22:13     ` Gustavo Barros
2020-11-13 22:21       ` Jean Louis
2020-11-14 17:28         ` Diego Zamboni
2020-11-14 19:10           ` Jean Louis
2020-11-15 12:44             ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-11-15 13:26               ` Jean Louis
2020-11-15 21:59                 ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-11-15 22:15                   ` Jean Louis
2020-11-16  7:15                   ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-16  6:26               ` Greg Minshall
2020-11-14 10:45   ` Diego Zamboni
2020-11-13 21:31 ` Jean Louis
2020-11-14 22:43 ` David Rogers
2020-11-15  5:38   ` Jean Louis
2020-11-15  7:47     ` David Rogers [this message]
2020-11-15  8:54       ` Jean Louis
2020-11-15 10:37       ` Greg Minshall
2020-11-15 11:42         ` Tim Cross
2020-11-15 11:48         ` Gustavo Barros
2020-11-15 11:58           ` Detlef Steuer
2020-11-15 12:09           ` Jean Louis
2020-11-15 14:50             ` Gustavo Barros
2020-11-15 15:11               ` Jean Louis
2020-11-15 10:44       ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-15 11:22         ` Detlef Steuer
2020-11-15 14:03           ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-11-16  5:24             ` Kyle Meyer
2020-11-16  6:41               ` Tim Cross
2020-11-16  7:15                 ` Tim Cross
2020-11-16 11:21                   ` Gustavo Barros
2020-11-16 23:24                     ` T.F. Torrey
2020-11-17  1:21                       ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-17  7:01                         ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-17  7:48                       ` Michal Politowski
2020-11-19  4:17                     ` Marcel Ventosa
2020-11-16  8:06                 ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-11-16 12:10                 ` Bill Burdick
2020-11-16  6:54               ` Greg Minshall
2020-11-16  7:12                 ` Tim Cross
2020-11-17  4:03                   ` Greg Minshall
2020-11-17  5:25                     ` Tim Cross
2020-11-17 13:15                       ` Greg Minshall
2020-11-16  7:01               ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-16  7:22                 ` Tim Cross
2020-11-16 16:04                   ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-16 16:26                     ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-16 18:12                       ` gyro funch
2020-11-16 18:48                         ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-16 19:41                           ` Bill Burdick
2020-11-16 19:56                             ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-16 21:50                             ` Tim Cross
2020-11-16 23:01                               ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-16 21:44                           ` Tim Cross
2020-11-16 18:20                       ` gyro funch
2020-11-16 20:56                       ` Tim Cross
2020-11-16 21:35                         ` Bill Burdick
2020-11-16 22:44                         ` Tom Gillespie
2020-11-16 23:55                         ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-17  9:05                           ` Stefan Nobis
2020-11-17  9:15                             ` Loris Bennett
2020-11-17  9:32                             ` Diego Zamboni
2020-11-17 14:29                             ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-17 16:25                               ` Robert Pluim
2020-11-16 23:39                       ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-16 21:35                     ` Tim Cross
2020-11-17  0:11                       ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2020-11-17  8:45                         ` Detlef Steuer
2020-11-17  9:41                           ` Jean Louis
2020-11-17 15:33                     ` Maxim Nikulin
2020-11-16 13:00                 ` Uwe Brauer
2020-11-16 16:10                   ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide

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