From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id 6DXfEXH80l/DMgAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 04:58:25 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id +GyhDXH80l93MgAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 04:58:25 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD13B940416 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 04:58:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:51700 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1knaVb-0002IT-LU for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 23:58:23 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36418) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kna7d-0000Su-ER; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 23:33:37 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:32859) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kna7X-00005g-Lv; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 23:33:37 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1607661159; bh=h/SDnvZz1jbjA7joXpjqUCDJgy3g5qkCToTNEvdRlE8=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=OdmB4f3WOYO0ahryT3uN600t4CfEfjNYR1wF7iu+Kwg1rqiLrgv+zOQ+6qHPlPiil 5OHhHpsPz3lZB3Ce/5zTKUCXJRgC3oQAwCbG4pCKUOMSmhpcGJTQOuMPo9NxD6DVaW gO67fYbMhTpgitLMrEGkQoiHlMwF03SL3WrD9A+Q= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [213.165.168.94] ([213.165.168.94]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs06.server.lan [172.19.170.174]) (via HTTP); Fri, 11 Dec 2020 05:32:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: From: daniela-spit@gmx.it To: TRS-80 Subject: Re: Emacs inserts hardwired org-agenda-files variable, overwriting user options Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2020 05:32:39 +0100 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <7330ab95c71d5d41d7fa6faffeaf300f@isnotmyreal.name> References: <87im9nri5l.fsf@kyleam.com> <7330ab95c71d5d41d7fa6faffeaf300f@isnotmyreal.name> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:/nAnjHwyFv0WIx9C02yzIo8amuYUK6+RuT1/4lRV/kNFYHrKaFuaE0dEqtCuJJLV8Qb7Y 9jeyNshuagI5bY5lRdWy0SLdqpSN/bo+qf5fOgrjfoBdbCTp3bbHF0Rgx8ICAzAjxoyt5WGm6Gk1 VEXGa/Fx+lGg4K7UboesnWEuy8wl1OeK56TrOuY/tNC7t34hooWTrA+XeGx20LEsE3Gh7TPzXoiy RnX5znJ/ucEbzO0bTbJ1hUvRjlF/a6akDxE5dCG5SjlxSbvkln1ztu+qbvmEDZrm+EM0RzxdCnI3 4M= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:Zb5q7EhZjvI=:376j/pOUE3zCMtrjR7BAZA z1pnMAQDw3Q2RWaumL+IK9YepQxmziAcqQtAjsYHOMJI+nr09MP1f1Jkys/SL6AmrDulkGRHN 8mkYa/WAbfIIy0MTlLXhxSjB7MtW/3IL8tqT4OtL9xcVk/KAu4Xvm+4xichJdsomGLpHfmS4N p7w6bzUJAFbunAXeZsBCCRmRkZ7M4TiRXdxrqcdncKPkUT08gplHUqWLzYc0ELhDMzsdDybBA ye2T5vWVFQo3tvTB0J90Ewst4lxyfHeE0HXcv8SiLl4U8mHNywOWK9Gf+4LQa849z5gLVSTHQ RsbXsIkdy21zyJSEoY4AzuaffNBGaliDS9EBT4e5+4wkuYSNElC9uldev7mKTjJ1Td9YzO+FZ x726UzNo4AH96bZVkEiE1iZXhD1R1GGD4yAznkcruHfcz2judGuFGbeLW84Ny4Pf/6gRnPIdY 1SBPJH6PfaDf3EYowQRInV7xdXD/MSbPLET4GlINlCa76J5k76TBT2FSKbJNu+c/EjtcZVHaY dXabRGooa620xBp7UqJUKpl/Eq5SiZRrHlUzL2Ku2K0TqBpTMxzLGg4gzEmcR+YS3CrpYh5MI TLd0i2KrdPSbo= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.18; envelope-from=daniela-spit@gmx.it; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Tom Gillespie , Kyle Meyer , Emacs-orgmode , Org-Mode mailing list Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 0.70 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail (headers rsa verify failed) header.d=gmx.net header.s=badeba3b8450 header.b=OdmB4f3W; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: AD13B940416 X-Spam-Score: 0.70 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: TP8ggwDhg9xp > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 at 4:59 AM > From: "TRS-80" > To: daniela-spit@gmx.it > Cc: "Kyle Meyer" , "Tom Gillespie" , = "Org-Mode mailing list" , "Emacs-orgmode" > Subject: Re: Emacs inserts hardwired org-agenda-files variable, overwrit= ing user options > > On 2020-11-29 17:08, daniela-spit@gmx.it wrote: > > > > Yes, there are problems with the documentation. I noticed recently > > that > > some guy criticised the manual, and so many got super defensive. You > > should > > give him a medal for telling you how things are. > > I guess in my mind, complaining about the manual, to a bunch of > volunteers and fellow users, is probably on the pretty unhelpful end of > the scale. > > Making constructive criticism is then slightly better, at least you are > not deriding (mostly volunteer) people's work and effort. Although not > by much, as this still does not require too much effort. > > However submitting a patch with an improvement to the documentation is > quite valuable. Pretty much on the opposite end of the scale in fact. > And thus, only this level of contribution "deserves a medal" as far as I > am concerned. > > I was not privy to particulars of conversation you mention, although I > have seen this sort of entitled attitude often enough in F/LOSS to have > somewhat of an idea of how it might have played out. > > Entitled users becoming demanding of things they expect (for free, no > less) is not just a drag, it's the cancer that slowly kills F/LOSS > projects. As eventually actually valuable contributors (maintainers, > devs, etc.) have had enough of it, get burnt out and leave the project. > I have seen it far too many times over the years. > > So I imagine what you witnessed was a sort of natural defense mechanism, > protecting the overall health of the community and project by having a > strong reaction to such negative attitudes. There are problems in Org-Agenda my friend. And quite some confusion on what mailing list to use. Only one mailing list is mentioned, then people start sending you here and there. At other times, things are done in a piecemeal process. Elisp can be challenging and you will not learnin= g in school. There needs to be some intermediate level manual if you want people to get good enough to help the project. I am quite sure that some people do spend a long time testing the code. > Cheers, > TRS-80 >