From: Jim Porter <email@example.com> To: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: [POLL] Setting `org-adapt-indentation' to nil by default? Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 11:31:55 -0700 Message-ID: <email@example.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <firstname.lastname@example.org> On 5/1/2021 11:09 PM, Bastien wrote: > With `electric-indent-mode' being activated by default in Emacs, the > current behavior is that RET after a headline moves the point below > the beginning of this headline, not the beginning of the line, which > might surprise users. > > Indentation is quite sensitive: what do you think of setting a new > default value of nil for `org-adapt-indentation' in Org 9.5? I much prefer the current behavior as of 9.4.5. I'll try to explain my reasoning. Of course like anyone, I'm biased, and got used to indenting the text under a heading (pre-9.4) simply because that's where it ends up if I hit TAB; in most other modes, TAB indents a line to where it "should" be, so I reasoned that text under a heading should be indented. Visually, I find indented text easier to scan. When my org document is fully-expanded, I can still quickly glance at the left margin to see when the outline level changes. It's much harder for me to do so when there's a bunch of text that's flush with the left margin. `org-indent-mode' can also do this, but I took to heart the Org Mode motto ("Your life in plain text"): I try to ensure my org files look as similar as possible regardless of whether they're opened in Emacs or a plain text editor. Hence, I put the indentation in the actual org file (and use `auto-fill-mode' to wrap the text). This makes it easier for me to send a non-Emacs-using colleague one of my org files while ensuring it's (somewhat) readable for them. Finally, as someone who primarily uses Emacs to write software, I find the current behavior to be more consistent with the other modes I use most often. In all programming modes I'm familiar with, hitting RET will create a new line, indented to the appropriate depth. For a whitespace-dependent language like Python, this is really the *maximum* depth that would make sense. However, compared to Org Mode, python-mode has an advantage: if I hit RET and the indentation isn't what I want (e.g. I was writing an `if' block and now I'm done with it), I can hit TAB repeatedly to cycle indentation levels. Org Mode does this when you've typed the "* " for a heading (or plain list), but not for a blank line. If I'm typing some text below a heading and hit RET to write some more, I might realize that I *actually* want a new heading. I could try to type "* ", but as I'm already indented, Org Mode rightly treats that as a plain list. Currently, I just hit undo and then try again with C-RET to make a new heading, but it might be nice to allow cycling indent levels on an otherwise-empty line. This reasoning might not apply for users who primarily use Emacs to edit text documents, as I'm sure the indentation logic there is different from editing source code. In that case, you could perhaps say that `org-adapt-indentation' == t is for programmers, and == nil for writers. :) Ultimately, I'm not sure this will convince anyone who disagrees, and I'm not even sure my *goal* is to convince people (so long as I'm still able to configure things the way I like). I just wanted to provide a perspective from someone on the other side of the fence. - Jim  This doesn't quite work for links specified like [[url][title]], but I see that as just a minor hiccup.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-05-02 18:41 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 46+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2021-05-02 6:09 Bastien 2021-05-02 7:13 ` Tim Cross 2021-05-02 8:06 ` Jean Louis 2021-05-02 8:47 ` Tim Cross 2021-05-02 20:18 ` Jean Louis 2021-05-02 22:25 ` Tim Cross 2021-05-03 7:41 ` Kévin Le Gouguec 2021-05-03 10:15 ` Jean Louis 2021-05-02 8:56 ` Bastien 2021-05-02 8:59 ` Bastien 2021-05-02 20:24 ` Jean Louis 2021-05-02 20:21 ` Jean Louis 2021-05-02 20:22 ` Jean Louis 2021-05-02 10:07 ` Eric S Fraga 2021-05-02 15:01 ` Detlef Steuer 2021-05-02 15:44 ` Colin Baxter 2021-05-02 15:46 ` Amin Bandali 2021-05-02 18:11 ` Tom Gillespie 2021-05-02 18:19 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2021-05-02 18:48 ` Tom Gillespie 2021-05-02 19:20 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2021-05-03 10:11 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide 2021-05-02 18:31 ` Jim Porter [this message] 2021-05-02 20:44 ` Kévin Le Gouguec 2021-05-03 7:33 ` Kévin Le Gouguec 2021-05-03 8:06 ` Bastien 2021-05-03 12:53 ` Kévin Le Gouguec 2021-05-03 13:40 ` Bastien 2021-05-03 14:57 ` Kévin Le Gouguec 2021-05-06 14:50 ` Maxim Nikulin 2021-05-15 20:51 ` Bastien 2021-05-19 17:02 ` [PATCH] etc/ORG-NEWS: Suggest against disabling `electric-indent-mode' Maxim Nikulin 2021-05-20 12:25 ` Bastien 2021-05-19 17:08 ` [PATCH] org-faq.org: Expand "What is the best setup for indenting?" Maxim Nikulin 2021-05-19 18:06 ` Greg Minshall 2021-05-20 15:57 ` Maxim Nikulin 2021-05-21 2:45 ` Greg Minshall 2021-05-27 16:11 ` Maxim Nikulin 2021-05-21 9:38 ` Bastien 2021-05-20 12:28 ` Bastien 2021-05-19 17:08 ` [POLL] Setting `org-adapt-indentation' to nil by default? Maxim Nikulin 2021-05-02 21:07 ` Jack Kamm 2021-05-05 7:54 ` Bastien 2021-05-06 14:13 ` Bastien 2021-05-09 16:42 ` Kévin Le Gouguec 2021-05-15 12:46 ` Bastien
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