From: Gustavo Barros <email@example.com> To: Greg Minshall <firstname.lastname@example.org> Cc: Karl Voit <devnull@Karl-Voit.at>, David Rogers <email@example.com>, firstname.lastname@example.org, Karl Voit <news2042@Karl-Voit.at>, Jean Louis <email@example.com> Subject: Re: Changed list indentation behavior: how to revert? Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 08:48:56 -0300 Message-ID: <firstname.lastname@example.org> (raw) In-Reply-To: <email@example.com> (Greg Minshall's message of "Sun, 15 Nov 2020 13:37:01 +0300") Hi All, On Sun, 15 Nov 2020 at 13:37, Greg Minshall <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: > hi, all. > > David Rogers <email@example.com> wrote: > >> Am I crazy to say that your last example of unwanted behavior is >> easier for me to read and understand? (and to me the common >> indenting is a hopeless mess?) > > yes, in fact, the "new" way sort of has the buffer indentation match > that of the outline structure of the file (specified by asterisks). > there's a lot to be said for that. (though, obviously, it's not what > everyone would want.) > > if the new mode stays as the standard, maybe we'd want to capture an > asterisk typed immediately after a newline that would (by default), put > that line-beginning asterisk back in column one? > > otherwise, this is what one gets (without remembering to do a C-j > instead of <RET>): > ----- > * i wanted a headline<RET> > * i wanted a subhead, but it's ignored by org mode > ----- > which is maybe not optimal? > > in most non-org modes (including in Org Src... buffers, and in org files > when writing org-mode lists), i'm a big fan of electric indent mode. > > maybe an org-specific setting, "org-file-indent-follows-structure"? if > true, it means the user wants to have a "raw" org document laid out > according to the outline structure of the document. if false, it means > one, in general, wants the org file laid out with left-alignment (or, > right, in right-to-left) languages (not including embedded lists, and > whatever else i might be ignoring). > > cheers, Greg I'm quite surprised by the reaction to this issue, because `electric-indent-mode' *does not change Org's indentation settings*, it just applies them alongside RET. Which makes me think that those who've been so bitten by it where actually manually overriding (their own) settings in this area by never applying indentation. If that's your case, you'd probably be very surprised of running `org-indent-region' in your documents (don't do it, I don't want to break them). In particular, one "surprising" result of the "new behavior" is that of indentation after a heading. That was already and continues to be controlled by the user option `org-adapt-indentation'. If you don't want your content to be indented after a heading, set it to nil. And `electric-indent-mode' should do what you expect in this regard. I'm not sure if thus overriding your own (or Org's, if you prefer) indentation settings by selectively applying indentation is a sane approach, so perhaps `electric-indent-mode' may help you discipline your editing to your benefit. And make you more conscious of Org indentation. Especially because indentation is not a "free variable" in Org, it is a syntactical aspect of an Org document and, conspicuously, is critical to the definition of a heading and of plain lists. An example from Greg: > ----- > * i wanted a headline<RET> > * i wanted a subhead, but it's ignored by org mode > ----- That's because the first one is indeed a heading, and the second is not, it is a plain list item. By definition a heading must start at the left margin. You (plural) could probably also get some juice from looking into, and incorporating to muscle memory, `M-RET', `C-RET' and `C-j'. Of course, with that said, if you really don't like `electric-indent-mode' for Org, you can disable it as described in the Org News, previously linked to in this thread. There is ground to prefer this, particularly for the list case, mentioned by Karl in the original message of this thread. But `electric-indent-mode' does not induce a new pattern of indentation for Org, it just applies your settings in this area, whose defaults have not changed of recent, as far as I recall. Finally, the "change" was not brought about by Org, but by Emacs. Org just (belatedly) tagged along. Best regards, Gustavo.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-11-15 11:50 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 76+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2020-11-13 17:30 Karl Voit 2020-11-13 21:10 ` Gustavo Barros 2020-11-13 21:38 ` Jean Louis 2020-11-14 3:02 ` Greg Minshall 2020-11-13 21:47 ` Jean Louis 2020-11-13 22:13 ` Gustavo Barros 2020-11-13 22:21 ` Jean Louis 2020-11-14 17:28 ` Diego Zamboni 2020-11-14 19:10 ` Jean Louis 2020-11-15 12:44 ` Kévin Le Gouguec 2020-11-15 13:26 ` Jean Louis 2020-11-15 21:59 ` Kévin Le Gouguec 2020-11-15 22:15 ` Jean Louis 2020-11-16 7:15 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide 2020-11-16 6:26 ` Greg Minshall 2020-11-14 10:45 ` Diego Zamboni 2020-11-13 21:31 ` Jean Louis 2020-11-14 22:43 ` David Rogers 2020-11-15 5:38 ` Jean Louis 2020-11-15 7:47 ` David Rogers 2020-11-15 8:54 ` Jean Louis 2020-11-15 10:37 ` Greg Minshall 2020-11-15 11:42 ` Tim Cross 2020-11-15 11:48 ` Gustavo Barros [this message] 2020-11-15 11:58 ` Detlef Steuer 2020-11-15 12:09 ` Jean Louis 2020-11-15 14:50 ` Gustavo Barros 2020-11-15 15:11 ` Jean Louis 2020-11-15 10:44 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide 2020-11-15 11:22 ` Detlef Steuer 2020-11-15 14:03 ` Kévin Le Gouguec 2020-11-16 5:24 ` Kyle Meyer 2020-11-16 6:41 ` Tim Cross 2020-11-16 7:15 ` Tim Cross 2020-11-16 11:21 ` Gustavo Barros 2020-11-16 23:24 ` T.F. Torrey 2020-11-17 1:21 ` Tom Gillespie 2020-11-17 7:01 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide 2020-11-17 7:48 ` Michal Politowski 2020-11-19 4:17 ` Marcel Ventosa 2020-11-16 8:06 ` Kévin Le Gouguec 2020-11-16 12:10 ` Bill Burdick 2020-11-16 6:54 ` Greg Minshall 2020-11-16 7:12 ` Tim Cross 2020-11-17 4:03 ` Greg Minshall 2020-11-17 5:25 ` Tim Cross 2020-11-17 13:15 ` Greg Minshall 2020-11-16 7:01 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide 2020-11-16 7:22 ` Tim Cross 2020-11-16 16:04 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide 2020-11-16 16:26 ` Tom Gillespie 2020-11-16 18:12 ` gyro funch 2020-11-16 18:48 ` Tom Gillespie 2020-11-16 19:41 ` Bill Burdick 2020-11-16 19:56 ` Tom Gillespie 2020-11-16 21:50 ` Tim Cross 2020-11-16 23:01 ` Tom Gillespie 2020-11-16 21:44 ` Tim Cross 2020-11-16 18:20 ` gyro funch 2020-11-16 20:56 ` Tim Cross 2020-11-16 21:35 ` Bill Burdick 2020-11-16 22:44 ` Tom Gillespie 2020-11-16 23:55 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide 2020-11-17 9:05 ` Stefan Nobis 2020-11-17 9:15 ` Loris Bennett 2020-11-17 9:32 ` Diego Zamboni 2020-11-17 14:29 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide 2020-11-17 16:25 ` Robert Pluim 2020-11-16 23:39 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide 2020-11-16 21:35 ` Tim Cross 2020-11-17 0:11 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide 2020-11-17 8:45 ` Detlef Steuer 2020-11-17 9:41 ` Jean Louis 2020-11-17 15:33 ` Maxim Nikulin 2020-11-16 13:00 ` Uwe Brauer 2020-11-16 16:10 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
Reply instructions: You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email using any one of the following methods: * Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client, and reply-to-all from there: mbox Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style List information: https://orgmode.org * Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to switches of git-send-email(1): git send-email \ --firstname.lastname@example.org \ --email@example.com \ --firstname.lastname@example.org \ --email@example.com \ --cc=devnull@Karl-Voit.at \ --firstname.lastname@example.org \ --email@example.com \ --cc=news2042@Karl-Voit.at \ /path/to/YOUR_REPLY https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html * If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Org-mode mailing list This inbox may be cloned and mirrored by anyone: git clone --mirror https://orgmode.org/list/0 list/git/0.git # If you have public-inbox 1.1+ installed, you may # initialize and index your mirror using the following commands: public-inbox-init -V2 list list/ https://orgmode.org/list \ firstname.lastname@example.org public-inbox-index list Example config snippet for mirrors. Newsgroups are available over NNTP: nntp://news.yhetil.org/yhetil.emacs.orgmode nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.orgmode AGPL code for this site: git clone https://public-inbox.org/public-inbox.git